Closing Rikers and Building a More Humane Justice System

A conversation between Rita Taddonio of Providence House and Dana Kaplan of the New York City Mayor's Office

Rita: Welcome. I'm Rita Taddonio, the interim director at Providence House, and we're with Dana Kaplan.

Dana: I am the Close Rikers czar for the Office of the New York City Mayor.

Rita: We're very excited to have you, Dana.

Dana: It's great to be here.

Rita: Focusing right away on the closing of Rikers, some of the people watching this may not know why that's happening. Could you speak to why it's happening and where the process is at this time?

Dana: Sure. Rikers Island is not just one jail. It's one of, if not the largest, penal colonies in the United States. It is about ten jails on an island that is very isolated, very hard to get to, far from public transportation, with dilapidated buildings built on landfill. For literal decades, people have been organizing, pushing, and calling for the closure of Rikers Island and its replacement with a system that is more humane and more dignified.

In 2019, the New York City Council and the Mayor's Office passed a plan to close Rikers Island and replace it with four smaller borough-based facilities, a number of hospital beds to treat people with the most medically complex situations, and, perhaps most importantly, to fundamentally reduce the jail population as well.

The vision is to have a pretrial system in New York City that is smaller, uses jail only as a last resort, and, when someone is detained, holds them in conditions that are far more humane and offer more programming than what exists today.

“The vision is to have a pretrial system in New York City that is smaller, uses jail only as a last resort, and, when someone is detained, holds them in conditions that are far more humane and offer more programming than what exists today.”

Rita: Where is the city in this process of taking down Rikers?

Dana: There are four new borough facilities currently under construction near the courts in Brooklyn, the Bronx, Queens, and Manhattan. Those are all underway. Notably, we recently opened 100 hospital beds at Bellevue. By opening those beds, we were able to move 100 people with the most medically complex needs off Rikers and into an environment that is more hospital-like. As a result, we are now able to close one of the jails on Rikers Island.

That's been a really exciting point of progress. Right now, the city is also focused on reducing the jail population and transforming the culture of the jails themselves. That transformation starts on Rikers Island right now. There's a real focus on bringing in more programming, providing better training for officers, engaging people more effectively, improving reentry services and discharge planning, and making sure that lengths of stay on Rikers are shorter than they currently are. We also need the right alternatives at the community level so judges have options and aren't sending people to Rikers who don't need to be there.

So the focus is across the board: building the new facilities, but more critically, thinking about the operations of the Department of Correction and the pretrial system overall in terms of reducing the number of people in jail on any given day in New York City.

Rita: It's clear that the mayor and the Mayor's Office of Criminal Justice have heard and listened to people who have been talking about what is needed to revamp the system into more of a restorative justice system than a punitive system. In this process, what have been the challenges?

Dana: I'll acknowledge that the buildings are behind schedule. It's a massive project. In many ways, closing Rikers Island isn't easy, but that's the point. We're not just trying to close one jail and open a new set of jails that operate the same way. That's the whole purpose of saying we're not simply going to build to replace the capacity we have on Rikers Island.

This is a moment for New York City to ask: What should pretrial justice look like? What is the purpose of jail in New York? Do we have the right kinds of community infrastructure to provide alternatives to sending people to detention? Because this is such a large-scale project that goes beyond simply building new buildings, it makes the work that much harder.

At the same time, that's what is so hopeful about this moment. We have an entire city of people, a mayor, and a City Council who want to get this done and are working together. It's an exciting time in New York City to think about what we can build for the future.

Rita: What is the role of alternatives to incarceration and reentry programs in closing Rikers and reducing incarceration?

Dana: One of New York City's huge assets is the strong ecosystem of community-based organizations and providers in every borough that offer alternatives-to-incarceration programs, pretrial supervised release, transitional housing, and reentry services. I think that's actually part of the reason we've seen such a significant reduction in the jail population over the years.

In 1992, there were 22,000 people in jail in New York City on a given day. Now we have about 6,600. Obviously, we still have a ways to go to reach our goal, but that's a huge reduction. I really believe it is built on the success of community- and neighborhood-based organizations, because our judges and district attorneys have a good deal of confidence in community supervision programs.

We also have many strong providers working to ensure that when people go into Rikers, they have supports and interventions upon release. Our system isn't perfect, and we have a ways to go. We need more resources for providers, and we need to make sure community organizations have the support they need to work with people who have substance-use needs and mental health issues.

Our providers are working around the clock, and we need to make sure they're supported in doing what is incredibly important community-safety work. As a longtime advocate and service provider for justice-impacted women, what are the challenges for women who are currently incarcerated, and how does the experience of incarceration affect them upon release?

Rita: As you know, Dana, there are many consequences. Benefits may be suspended when someone is arrested. There is separation from children, which can cause attachment trauma for the children and negatively affect the parent-child relationship.

Many of the women we talk to have lost their IDs, birth certificates, and other important papers when they're arrested. Being in jail for any significant amount of time may mean losing employment and housing, if someone had housing before they were incarcerated. There can also be a disruption in medical and mental health care. It's a total disruption of a person's life.

Many of the women who come to us also have significant mental illness or trauma. People try to make jail as human and humane as possible, but incarceration is traumatizing and can be triggering. It really sets people back.

Dana: What types of services and programs does Providence House provide to women?

Rita: When women are coming out, they're often carrying all of those issues with them. What we try to do, and what I think is really important, is create a safe landing space - emotionally and physically - so people can take a breath, regroup, and ask: How did I get here, and how can I change the trajectory of my life?

“When women are coming out, they're often carrying all of those issues with them. What we try to do, and what I think is really important, is create a safe landing space - emotionally and physically - so people can take a breath, regroup, and ask: How did I get here, and how can I change the trajectory of my life?”

Before you can do that, you have to recover a little from the trauma. We create an environment of healing and respect the dignity of each woman. Each woman has her own room and a key to it, because so much dignity is lost in jail. Women have the independence to make meals when they want, come and go, and have a room of their own.

We also have an on-site psychiatric provider, which I think is critical, and your agency supports this work. So many of the women have mental health needs. Even outside of jail, it can be very hard to get really good psychiatric care. You don't get that from a 15-minute interview with a psychiatrist. Having a provider on site allows for a fuller assessment, ongoing observation while someone is living in the program, and timely responses to changes in symptoms or medication needs. That has been an incredible addition to our program, along with providing medical services.

We also have creative arts therapists. Expressive therapies can be a way to access trauma because trauma lives in the body. Often, people need ways to express trauma that are less frightening and less overwhelming before they can really engage in talk therapy about what happened.

We do a lot of psychoeducational groups as well, talking about emotion management, identifying triggers, recognizing toxic relationships, and building more positive relationships and community. So it's not just providing a place to stay. It's providing a safe place, an environment, and the time to really look at your life and ask, 'How can I do this better?'

Dana: What have you learned during your tenure at Providence House that you want the Mamdani administration and those of us in city government to understand as we work to close Rikers Island and find alternatives?

Rita: What I think Providence House has come to understand - and what many other groups that work specifically with women understand - is that gender does make a difference. Gender-responsive programming is important. We're all people, but we're different, and we process things differently. Women communicate differently from men and often experience relationships differently.

Women who are involved in the justice system can be successful. They can be in a transitional shelter or program while awaiting sentencing, and they can successfully look at what drove them to that point. But it's important to remember that it's not just housing people need. We do need housing, but people also need the opportunity to examine what brought them to this point in their lives so they can move forward.

The other piece that's really important is family: reconnecting with children and doing the healing work that comes with that. Even if your child is 50 now, people still need to reconnect with their children, and there's often a lot of grief work around those relationships. If I had to pick two main things, those are what I would hope the administration keeps in mind.

You spoke about this a little earlier, but in your mind, what does success look like - not just in closing Rikers, but in building the systems that must exist afterward?

Dana: I firmly believe that we will have a safer city when we have fewer, not more, people in jail. Part of that path is strengthening, sustaining, and expanding community-based alternatives to incarceration, reentry programs, prevention programs, and all of the supports people need at the community level rather than in jail itself.

“I firmly believe that we will have a safer city when we have fewer, not more, people in jail. Part of that path is strengthening, sustaining, and expanding community-based alternatives to incarceration, reentry programs, prevention programs, and all of the supports people need at the community level rather than in jail itself.”

I also think our court system can operate more efficiently. I deeply believe we will better deliver justice when people are not languishing while waiting for their day in court. I don't think that's good for defendants, and I don't think it's good for victims either. That's the different kind of justice system we're focused on.

I believe we will have a safer city when the conditions in our city's jails are more humane. That's better for people who are incarcerated, but it's also better for staff of every kind - correctional officers, health care workers, nonprofit program providers, and teachers who come into the city's jails every day and should also have a safe place to work.

The vision for closing Rikers Island is shaped by the crisis we've had in the city's jails for many years, but it's also driven by a vision for a very different kind of pretrial justice system. We say 'smaller, safer, more humane,' but it really means smaller facilities closer to people's homes, families, attorneys, service providers, public transportation, and programming - and fewer people in New York City's jails on any given day.

Rita: Thank you. What message would you like to share with individuals currently incarcerated on Rikers who are working toward a second chance?

Dana: Mayor Mamdani was at Rikers just a couple of weeks ago speaking at a graduation. One of the things I love about that is that the mayor and this administration deeply believe in hope for what comes next, even for people who are incarcerated on Rikers Island right now.

The current commissioner of correction was himself incarcerated on Rikers Island a couple of decades ago. There is literally no limit to what people can do in their lives, even after having the experience of going through jail. It is our responsibility as a city to make sure that when people come into contact with our criminal legal system and are in our city's jails, we provide them with every opportunity to do something different and to have more opportunities.

My message to people who are incarcerated on Rikers Island is that this administration is committed to that. I think New Yorkers want that, and I hope people can have that hope.

Rita: Thank you, Dana. It's been a pleasure speaking with you.

Dana: It's been really nice to be here and to learn all about Providence House and the work you all do. Thank you for having this conversation.